Pathfinder.

Savage Worlds.

Both good systems and both, at one time or another, large parts of my RPG collection.

Both were also, for my uses, quite flawed so they are mostly gone now.

Think of them like two family friends you like, but never really mesh with on any level beyond distant admiration, positive here-say from other friends and the occassional gathering.

My massive 1e Pathfinder collection went to another gamer a few years ago. I liked it in a way, but knew I would never play it. Too much of too much, especially when I have never been a strong d20 advocate. As an E6 vehicle (D&D limited to 6th level characters, more in keeping with a true Tolkien inspired level of power and avoiding the issues of higher level play), it was intriguing, but by definition mostly a wasted resource, so it went in favour of my d100 games and the even more OTT, but far less crufty 13th Age.

Pathfinder to me was a light feeling game that was far from light. 13th Age manages to be lighter effortlessly and my collection of d100 games ranges from very lite to very heavy and realistic, but Pathfinder was to me, a brick laden faux-light experience.

Savage Worlds has held a much different place in my gaming life. I have never warmed to it, but have stayed open minded and until recently had a decent Explorers/Deluxe Edition collection. This went also in several drafts, but is now reduced to the new base book of the latest (slickest) SWADE edition, kept just in case.

I have an unscratched itch left over from my last SW collection. I liked, but failed to use the Sci Fi and Supers companions to do a Guardians of the Galaxy like mash-up. Maybe if they release improved and updated versions of these, I will try again.

Savage Worlds is basically the opposite of Pathfinder. Too light and gimmicky for me to be take seriously, but also too crunchy and abstract to be mindless fun, used as a foil to my d100 games, it was far too successful, being basically the opposite of what I like in most ways. I especially struggled with many of the SW themed games I had. Some were excellent fits, many near misses and some, just not a fit.

Solomon Kane for example, should have been (can be/is) a great theme for a d100 game based on CoC, Clockwork and Chivalry or Pendragon. It just fits those systems and more importantly the feel of these far better than the limited scope and gamey, abstract feel of SW.

I can play light games with d100, but still retain a logic and realism. Shifting to a more abstract platform is fine, as long as it delivers what it says it will, simplicity, fun and the right feel. In most cases SWs’ simplicity just seems overly abstract and mechanically obvious. To me, only pulpy supers-sci-fi and pulp-fantasy games fit it well and only some of those. Horror themes just seem to lack that brooding menace.

Achtung Cthulhu is a great example here. It came with both SW Deluxe and 6e CoC stats in every book, but I never felt like using the SW version. You cannot do pulpy as well with CoC, but the horror and real fear factor are largely lost with SW’s “cute” mechanics. All d100 games share one thing in common, a feeling of character fragility, which helps add menace to realistic horror themed games immensely.

What it does do though is provide a more lethal and unpredictable game than the regular d20 system.

So, why the sudden interest in Pathfinder for Savage Worlds?

If you take the undisputedly wonderful art and deeply fleshed out world that is the Pathfinder legacy, strip back the massive rules density, using the realitively slick and playful SW rules (the other game system that heroes all those polyhedral die), then you potentially have a match made in heaven.

SW gets its parameters defined and is relatively clean and lighter systemically, while Pathfinder gets a friendlier game engine using a clean core and flexibility instead of layers of detail.

I have received the PDF for the Advanced Players Guide and it is all there. The highly inspirational art, all the classic Pathfinder conventions and the genuine Savage Worlds feeling of playability that make such a super cohesive pair. A bit like 13th Age, this combination is over the top fun, rather than dense rules based on old school abstractions.

Where 13th Age takes the d20 system and candidly dumps all the bits gamers tend to house rule out of the way anyway, SW-Pf uses the SW system in much the same way and one I feel works best for pulp fantasy (Wayne Reynolds illustration style pulp). I still find it extrordinary that much of the Pathfinder 1e cruft is handled by such a simple system in a few undersized books.

Gone are all those levels, using only 5 tiers of play with 20 incremental advances (realistic, constrained and workable “levelling”). Like a d100 game it is largely skills based, quite lethal at any power level and very open in character development. There are classes, but they are more like career paths, not restricting life parameters and your character is not confined to them.

Like a d20 game, it uses simple abstractions to get some things done and still adheres to the feel of a levels style game. Unlike a d20 game, it feels light and casual.

It just feels like a perfect combination of the two systems strengths.

Would I buy Pathfinder again in another, d20 form?

No, that road has been taken and rejected. I have plenty of fantasy games that either feel better or do it’s job in a way that is more to my liking.

How about SW?

A very tentative maybe, but limited to just what works for the system for me. The afore mentioned Supers and Sci-Fi companions, maybe a pulpy game, but otherwise, just Pathfinder.

I also have a wealth of useful maps and other bits I kept when I sold the bulk of my d20 stuff.

I have the Pathfinder and 3-4e map packs, 4e card and paper battle maps and counters and some other fluff. This all fits perfectly into a Savage Worlds style Pathfinder game.

I always wanted to like SW and Pathfinder for that matter, but cast them aside in favour of a semi-unified collection based on variations of the d100 core.

So, getting back to my analogy above, these two friends have started dating and guess what? Everyone now finds the pair of them much more likeable and approachable as a couple.

SW-PF allows me to dip a toe back into two old ideas at the same time with the salve each needs and all that collateral I have hoarded gets used……finally.